Hello, I'm Zeke and welcome to the Zekely podcast. Let's talk Pennsylvania. The guest I have today lives in Murrysville, Pennsylvania and is a respected voice in democratic politics. As a seasoned campaign strategist, she brings more than 15 years of experience building grassroots power in the Commonwealth. Thank you so much for being here, Michelle Milan-McFall.

For years, I’ve knocked thousands of doors all over Pennsylvania and poured my heart and soul into supporting candidates and causes that make a difference—from local school board races to national elections. The personal is political, and I take every election in Pennsylvania personally.

Where the mainstream media has failed you, I will give you truth and independence. You’ll hear from Democratic leaders, candidates, and change-makers who are working to improve the health of the Commonwealth, and it won’t be boring as hell.

No matter where you are, I’ll meet you with hope and a plan to make your community better one day at a time. Welcome to the Zekely Podcast. Let’s talk Pennsylvania.

Thanks so much Zeke, I'm really excited to be here. I've been following you since day one.

my God, I have to say, I am super appreciative of the mini Malcolm that you sent me when Malcolm Kenyatta was running for Auditor General. ⁓ It traveled everywhere in the Commonwealth with me. So thank you so much for that.

Yeah.

There it is. ⁓ my gosh, that thing was great. It really was a conversation starter. And thank you so much.

You're created.

You're so welcome. Thank you so much for being an early supporter of Malcolm Kenyatta.

Absolutely. Look, he's still doing the work But right now we're going to talk all about you and play some and Games. You ready?

I'm ready.

All right. Michelle, how does a former English teacher become a political operative in Pennsylvania politics?

My husband was working full time, of course, and it was too much for him to manage. What I've learned about myself is when I'm in something, I'm all in. I have a real hard time compartmentalizing and putting the work away. So I had to choose and I chose to be a mom. But I lost a sense of identity. I wasn't doing the thing that I loved the most. I was learning how to be a mother. in part of that, I jumped into something I never thought I would do, which was the local PTO.

I became the president of the PTO.

And I realized that rather than fighting about the color of icing on cupcakes and homeroom parties, we could actually pool energy and raise money to build playgrounds in neighboring communities where there were no playgrounds. And that, course, quickly transitioned into supporting school board candidates. And my first foray, Zeke, was supporting a local school board candidate who was far and away the most qualified candidate

in the field, but she was a Democrat on the ballot and what then was, know, it was the Tea Party taking over our school boards. And what I learned, what I saw behind the curtain, the way this woman was smeared and didn't matter how hard we worked, didn't matter.

what her qualifications, her experience, what her commitment was, we couldn't get her through.

But you know, it really made me double down and figure out if we're ever going to start gaining ground in a community like mine that had been taken over by the Tea Party, it really was going to take work in organizing, you know, that transition into one campaign after the other.

You've done great work. I'm just super impressed with your grind, your battle tested, and Westmoreland, Pennsylvania really should be grateful to have you. Absolutely. It is, it is, but it takes leadership. And people are always saying, know, where's the leadership in the Democratic Party? If you're listening to this, if you're watching this, this is a leader, right here. And she lives in Pennsylvania, and she's not on CNN every day.

Thank you so much. It's a team effort for sure. A great team.

but she's the one doing the work. And so I'm eternally grateful that you stick it out and every election is the most important election and we showed that on November 4th.

it.

Michelle, can't spell teacher without tea

spill a little of it in this game, okay? What grade did you teach when you were a teacher? ⁓ high school.

taught high school English.

For most years I taught 11th grade but I taught 9 through 9 through 12.

Okay, all right, I have a couple questions for you, okay? Let's spill some tea.

Did you ever get into it with a student's parent over a grade or assignment?

I did. think parents can be very, very protective and sometimes don't see the full picture and parents want what they want. The amazing thing is though that kids always know the truth. All you really had to do in a situation like that was look at the students and say, you tell your mom, you tell your mom. And kids always owned up to it. Kids are the best. No, all the time, yeah. No physicals, no.

Yes.

They owned up to it? All right. No fisticuffs with the parents. Okay, fine. All right,

fine. What was the hottest gossip that you heard in the teacher's lounge?

Cool. Yeah, for me, some of the hottest gossip really did relate to the politics of what happened in school

⁓

Yeah.

Innuendo's about superintendents and whether they were actually secret Republicans. That was the big tea And who did they vote for?

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Scandalous. Scandalous and Westmoreland. All right. This... Allegheny. Okay. Allegheny County. Okay.

Yes, scandalous stuff. Scandalous. I actually taught in Allegheny County, though. Yeah. So the

assumption always was that everybody I was working with was a Democrat, because Allegheny County, as you know, is so locked in blue. That's not always the case. And you think when you're an educator that your fellow educators, especially those who are in the union, as I was, are in lockstep with you. And like, that's not always the case.

Yeah.

weird stuff.

all right here's here's the last one did a teacher ever steal your food in the communal fridge ⁓ that's really I thought that my god did anybody ever prank them like put something spicy in the food and you like really like search it out

always. Features are the worst about taking the snacks. We're so hungry all the time.

No, we fell short on the pranks. We were all about giving grace and saying, it's all right. You can have my food.

You can have my leftover

burrito, it's fine. All right, well thanks for spilling the tea with

Yeah.

Michelle, can you give a brief explanation of the organizational structure of the Westmoreland County Democratic Committee and how you were elected as chairperson?

So when I ran for chair, I came in as the outsider and I ran it like a campaign.

waited for our committee to be elected. Our committee in its full form is 614 members, 307 precincts, right, with two members elected to each precinct.

wow.

It's not been easy work, trying to build that committee out to its full capacity of 614 members, that in and of itself has worked.

but really honing in on the regions that have been active and engaged in providing training and resources and ideas and listening to

So that's the work of it. But there's another piece that I want to say is very important. And this is another thing that never can't we can't do this alone. We don't have a single elected Democratic state representative in West Moreland County. There are six legislative districts, but no Democratic representation.

When we look to the East, West, North, South as Democrats and know that there's no one there fighting for us, no one there representing us, it's hard. It is hard to be a Democrat here. So building events focused on bringing in the committee and the volunteers and spotlighting

Democrats from around the region, Malcolm Kenyatta, Connor Lamb, anyone who's elected who comes to this county, and they've done it. They've all showed up for us. Every elected official, every candidate who's run statewide, you know, it gives our members and our volunteers the emotional fuel that they so desperately need so they're not running on empty. And more than that, it makes them feel important and seen because they are important.

A vote in West Moreland County is equally as important as a vote out of Philadelphia or Montco or Allegheny. And that's the message we keep pushing and our members believe that.

Yeah, and this is all volunteer, correct? You're not getting paid to be the chair of the Westmoreland County Democratic Committee. I think that needs to be highlighted more. The fact that the people who are doing the work on the ground in Pennsylvania, in all of these Democratic committees, it's not a paid gig. You're literally doing a civic duty to try and make your town better and to make the commonwealth of Pennsylvania better. And so

volunteer.

thank you so much. You're doing a great

You're welcome. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Thank you for seeing us. You were one of the people

early on. I remember our early Twitter conversations and you were highlighting some of our gains when nobody else saw us. Thank you.

Yeah,

This is not like an overnight event. This is years in the making, just like I talked to Izzy Smith-Wadell. You know, they're making gains in Lancaster County, red Lancaster County, and that doesn't happen overnight. That takes years of planning and outreach, which is exactly what you're doing. So excellent work. You're

amazed. ⁓

Thank you so much.

Michelle, you served as a political consultant for the retention campaign of our Supreme Court Justice, Kevin Dougherty

I did.

First of all, thank you so much. He needed to win his retention race. How did you fall into his campaign specifically?

I was out every day, my team was our volunteer, everybody, we were out every day for a vote yes on retention,

But particularly the Dougherty end, he's from the east side of the state, it's a massive 67 county state, 67 county strategy. So it's really important to have somebody representing and on the ground.

Yeah.

for the campaign in the West. In this case, it was me and it was Kevin Kinross in the West.

I mean,

thank you so much. I I really hope by now my listeners and viewers understand that this election on November 4th was so consequential for the next decade in Pennsylvania. And the fact that these three state Supreme Court justices were retained means that we're going to have free and fair elections in Pennsylvania for the next decade, and it will affect the entire country. And I'm talking to someone right now who was influential in making that happen. So.

I'm eternally grateful. We needed this as Pennsylvanians and it's just, you did a great job.

Michelle, you enjoy writing poetry, correct? All right, well, you're the second poet enthusiast that I've had on the show. Malcolm Kenyatta was the first, actually, which makes sense that you two like working with each other. But have you ever played the game poetry for Neanderthals?

If not, I haven't heard.

You haven't?

Okay, so that's what we're gonna play right now, all right? So I'm gonna try to get you to guess something, but I can only use one syllable phrases, okay? And then you're gonna try and guess what I'm saying, all right? All right, so here's the first one. He get shit done in our state. Okay, very good, that was the first one. All right, here's the second one. It is

Josh Shapiro.

act.

We do

year,

gosh,

it's very good to help.

I didn't practice it ahead of time as you can tell.

It

two times a year in our state. Very good. Okay.

elections. have elections in Pennsylvania

every six months. need to go.

Yes, very good. Okay, that

was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. Okay,

Yeah, I did actually break a sweat on that last one. hurt a little bit. Okay, but this is actually the game. I play this with my kids. It's a lot of fun. But in the game, you can actually like pass a word if you struggle too much, but I don't have that much time. So we're just gonna fight through these last two, all right? gosh, how am I gonna explain this? Okay.

Two word. Okay, two

need to raise in our state to no to help pay more.

Go to

living wage? What? Yeah.

Yes, very good.

Yeah, the living wage, very minimum wage. Very good, very good. Okay, here's the last one. ⁓ I'm actually sweating right now. ⁓ Okay, here's the last

I'm glad that you are breaking a sweat.

We did this in street.

this year, last year.

to make noise. Yes, very good. thank God you got it, okay. This is my form of poetry for you, Michelle. Okay, so thank you very much. Something you can do with Malcolm sometime when you're bored, okay? So it's called Poetry for Neanderthals and get it on Amazon today.

protest?

I love this.

poetry for Neanderthals. That's fun.

Michelle, why are you a Democrat?

And why did you decide to represent the Democratic Party?

big question.

And so I'm very lucky to be where I am in my life. I grew up in a very broken home with a stepfather who was a violent alcoholic who ⁓ abused me in every imaginable way.

I'm sorry.

He also abused my mom and my step siblings. And it was very dark in my house. We were also living sort of right around the poverty line. You sometimes it was a choice between lights and food. And in addition to all of that, I have a younger sister who is profoundly disabled and her medical needs, her special needs were beyond what a family at that time

⁓ you know, so many programs are available could manage and I have these these recollections of my mom, my sweet gentle mother who is living in this horrific situation trying to take care of all of us, somehow finding our then state representative, the great statesman Allen Kukovich who

who somehow provided an on-ramp for her to not only get resources for battered women, but also to find assistance for my sister. And it was a game

for a kid who had very little hope or very little guidance, that name Allen Kukovich has been a beacon for me. Allen Kukovich went on.

as a state legislator to create the CHIP program, which is now a federal program, is ⁓ taking care of and providing health care for millions and millions of children. So that early exposure to Allen Kukovich was deeply formative and it showed me, Zeke, what in our very best form, what Democrats can do. We are here to make life better for the people that we love. We are the party.

Yeah.

that consistently have done that. That's what I want to be. I want to make sure that in my life I'm doing what I can to help the family that was like

but Allen Kukovich is the reason I'm a Democrat.

such a powerful story. I'm so sorry for what you and your family went through, but it makes sense that the morals and the values and the support systems of the Democratic Party has that you fell into that. And that's what you aspire to go after as an adult and that you continue to do to this day. ⁓

Yeah, we wouldn't have been okay

without that. That's a true story. That's a fact.

Yeah, right. mean, the trajectory of your life would have been very different had you not had those resources from a state representative who happened to be a Democrat and who helped millions of people. I mean, how incredible that he helped millions of children all over the Commonwealth in this country.

That's right.

And Zeke, I wouldn't meet Allen until I was in like my 40s.

that's another full circle moment for me. You Allen is my mentors in this work. I thought his help and his advice when I decided to run for chair and I talked to him nearly weekly, he's one of the smartest, kindest people, and we're very lucky, all of us, to have him.

Yeah.

That's incredible. Thank you so much for that

Michelle, there are a lot of people who are upset about what's going on in this country, as I'm sure you are as well, but you are, we've already discussed, doing something constructive with those emotions. So how would you approach someone who is disaffected with what's going on in this country and with democracy?

That's another great question. And I have conversations with people who feel disaffected all the time. And they are so deeply passionate about what they're feeling and what they're thinking. And what I've found again and again is that people's feelings and intentions to do something somehow fall off a cliff, right? There's a disconnect between what's happening here

to what actually has to happen in terms of the practice of it, not just the theory of it. What I always encourage people to do in real time, if they're not registered to vote, we'll pull out our phones and we'll go to the Westmoreland Dems website, which has a one-click voter registration pull down menu, make sure that they're registered and encourage them and let them know that the vote actually matters. Now we've seen in precincts just...

on the fourth where a couple of folks win by two votes on a race. Your vote

So that's always my priority message to listen, to hear what they're saying, and then to ultimately encourage, take it to the ballot box. But every now and then, I'm sure you experience this too, you find a person, you kind of catch a vibe with them that they really want to do something different.

Mm-hmm.

In that case, it's join the committee or bigger run for something. Run for, we got 19 school districts in this county and many of them don't have ⁓ a Democratic school board candidates on the ballot. Run for something, we'll help you. Run for a council seat, run for a mayoral seat, go bigger.

there's so many things that everyone can do.

Yeah, I agree.

I think the minimum that we all can do obviously is vote. But then in a stepwise fashion, as you did, you just start getting involved in your local politics. And if you have the ability to run for office, even better. But what we cannot allow people to ever fall into is apathy and believe that your vote does not matter. Anyone who is telling you that your vote does not matter is working for the opposition. They're working for the opposition. They just don't want, you know, your kind of people to be elected.

So we have to keep the faith. We have to keep moving forward. And if these elections on November 4th haven't reinvigorated a lot of people who maybe weren't paying attention before, I hope they start because there is no part of Pennsylvania that cannot turn blue if we all put in the effort to do it. So thank you. Just keep those conversations going.

Bye.

you

Oil well. was the first oil well.

Yeah,

Yes. The haymaker gas. that's right. That's right. It's on the roof. Yeah.

Oh, it's a pine tree. It was a Boy Scout project. plant pine trees.

Yeah.

but it is no longer the world's largest. And bonus, here's a bonus question, okay?

⁓ The Y in the Murrisville sign points to what?

Haymaker gas well. It does? There you go. Yep. I'm telling you, I found some interesting facts about Murrysville.

it.

gateway to West Moreland County. Yeah.

There you go,

that is correct. You got all of the questions, very good. You know, know, Murrysville.

Michelle, you are an elected member of the Democratic National Committee. So I wanted to know what you've been up to in the DNC.

I was recently appointed by Chairman Martin to a task force. So maybe I'll add a little more information, but really I'm still in the learning processes in figuring out.

how does this all work? But it's not what I thought it was. There's no magic bullet. There's no inherent power of the organization to fix all of the things that we perceive with our elected officials, with leaders who are elected, with the messaging, right? We always say, people got a message. But the DNC can't exactly.

Right.

fix that. the DNC can do is raise money and invest in programs that reach voters in a meaningful way. And that is what I've seen Chairman Martin strive to do. Raise money, communicate in meaningful ways with each state and territory.

and find ways to invest. Chairman Martin was in Pennsylvania, as you know, multiple times for our retention races. The DNC made a substantial investment in our Vote Yes coordinated campaign to make sure we had what we needed. I'll be heading to Los Angeles next month in December.

for my second full meeting. You our last meeting I have to say was, it was cut short and punctuated in a tragic way when a shooting occurred in Minneapolis at the Catholic school, a few miles away from where we were and on the heels of Melissa Hortman, her husband being assassinated. It was very unsettling for everyone.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we didn't actually get to the business meeting to discuss the resolutions that have been put on the table and to get to some of the business. I'm looking forward to getting back to that business in December.

Ken Martin, I think is doing a great job and he's doing a great job because people like you are going to help him. You know, just like you said, it's not a single person that makes the Democratic Party move forward. It's an army of people.

and someone like you who's done so much in Pennsylvania, you're going to bring those skills to the DNC and be a part of that change. So I can't wait to see what you pump out. It's going to be great. You're welcome.

Michelle, you sit, amongst many other things, on the board of the United Rural Democrats of America, correct? So what type of representation are rural Democrats looking for these days?

It's bleak. It's very difficult for Democrats. And unfortunately, it's hard for people who vote against their own interests who are also losing.

services and access. So I think fundamentally what rural Democrats want in their counties is what we all want in all of our counties. We want fair representation. We want someone who's going to fight for us. We want someone to make sure that our kids have it better and have more access than maybe we did.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely am grateful I live in a very blue area of Pennsylvania. know, Montgomery County is a solid blue region. And I certainly empathize with anyone living in a ruby red district. But I guess what I would say to those people is, first of all, don't don't give up hope. You know, your vote still matters. And, you know, every election is the most important election. And also the Democrats that we elect in other parts of the state and that we send to Harrisburg.

are still going to help them in ways that maybe their own state reps won't, right? Like the funding that you're going to get in public schools in your area is still going to trickle in from Democrats who help with that funding, the budget in Harrisburg, even if you didn't vote for them directly. So I don't want them ever to think that they're being left behind because there are Democrats from all over the state who are working for them, even if their own state reps won't do the work for them.

as our state senator, Vincent Hughes, once famously said. But, you know, I understand the despair and the disappointment, but just know that Democrats are doing work for them, even if it's not within their own district.

think that's a very hopeful message and important message. I hope they feel that way, I don't know that's the reality. In some counties, you don't even have a hospital.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. No, I mean, it's terrible. mean, there's I don't want to dilute it down or anything. It's not great. But, ⁓ no, you have to. Right. You have to keep moving forward and just know that there are people, even though I live in a blue area, I'm not taking it for granted. First of all, I don't want to lose it. I don't want to lose it. And I know that the bluer we get.

But it keeps fighting, right? Every vote.

And the further we get in our elections and other places that eventually I'm hoping that it will touch those ruby red areas and people will wake up and make some changes in their districts. So just please don't give up and know that we're fighting for you. We are.

Yeah. No.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, can't take anything for granted and just have to keep moving forward.

the reelection of our governor, Josh Shapiro. We cannot in any way afford to take our foot off the gas. I think we need to build and capitalize on the momentum of our Tuesday the 4th.

take that and you know just build more power going in to make sure we reelect governor Shapiro. Who is going to be everything to this state?

and can you also imagine the money that we've seen the billionaires pouring in not just this vote no campaign for the supreme court races but across the nation they have unlimited

They're going to dogpile on Governor Shapiro and if you know our unions are going to suffer women, workers, everything that we've been fighting so hard to protect would fall into the hands of Stacey Garrity who is a J6 insurrection supporter.

yeah. yeah.

⁓

I mean it's hard to think like what's worse Doug Mastriano or Stacey Garrity. mean they're just, they're two sides of the same coin

There's nothing moderate about Stacey Garrity's views or Doug Mastriano's and the fact that Doug Mastriano is still serving in our state Senate after being at J6 and all the terrible things he did working with white supremacists. mean, it's an abomination, but I just, I agree with you. mean, Josh Shapiro is definitely the forefront of my mind. And to be honest, I think we were all terrified after the election last year. I mean, I was devastated. I did not know what was going to happen in this country.

But what I've

is that I think the governors and our state rights are going to save this country. I really do. mean, thank goodness that our voting rights are not up to the federal government, because if they were, this would be game over already. know, Doge would have gutted whatever voting rights that we would have left in DC and across this country. And thank goodness we have good governors.

like Josh Shapiro and a handful of others in other states who are gonna uphold the law and who are going to make sure that we move forward.

and obviously there are some state rights I think that that should be uniform like civil rights I think should be federally everywhere, right? But in terms of like protecting our nation from crumbling into fascism and getting rid of democracy, I really think the governors and states are gonna save this nation. I really do, I think Josh Shapiro is gonna be one of those governors.

I you're right. I think, know, Governor Shapiro's record is beyond reproach. The fight that he delivered for all of us when he was our attorney general speaks for itself. This first term, he has just been a champion for Pennsylvania and for this nation, for our democracy. I'm very excited for all of us to step in and support his reelection.

I hope to get him on my podcast one of these days if he's listen if his ears are twitching It's because ⁓ I got to get you on here sometime Josh. Have a good

Michelle, have you ever lost a friend over politics? Yeah.

I have.

I have lost many friends over politics. And it's been very hard to make friends where I live, especially when my daughter was growing up during her school age years, during elementary and middle and high school. It was complicated. And I think my daughter's lost friends over politics. Yeah.

Yeah, you and me both.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, I have as well. think, I think for me, and I don't know if you agree with this or not, the line for me is kind of normalizing that kind of behavior. Like, I don't want people to feel comfortable in having bigoted ideas around me. It's one thing to be

like, ⁓ I

want the sidewalk in my town to be five feet wide versus four feet wide. You know, I want this stop sign to be here and you don't want this stop sign to be here. But when it comes to, you know,

diversity, equity, inclusion, raising the minimum wage, arresting and hunting down people who are just trying to make a better life in this nation, going after LGBTQ plus people, making it harder for people of color to advance themselves in a country that for hundreds of years did anything but that. I just feel like I'm not gonna normalize that behavior. And that makes people uncomfortable to kind of call them out like that. And I just don't wanna be right.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Policy disagreements are normal. We can disagree on policy and practice, but there are some issues.

just inexplicably linked to a moral compass, a moral code. And when there's a break or a breach there, that's a hard line. It's really unfortunate. And like, there was never an actual like fight or blow up. It's just disengagement. When you call them out for it, you say the truth, you say the real thing. And I think beyond that, there's not much hope. I don't know what that distinction is. Like, is it a DNA distinction?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

distinction.

I don't know. mean,

to be fair, I used to be a registered Republican. I didn't really understand politics at all. did not, I'd only voted in think presidential elections. I don't even think I could tell you what a midterm was. I just wasn't very educated. I grew up in a conservative household. I kind of voted how my parents voted.

And even as I grew into college, I was like this socially progressive, but fiscally conservative, whatever the hell that means, which is garbage anyway. And then I saw Trump get elected and I became a doctor and I saw the COVID pandemic and I saw hundreds of thousands of people die needlessly because of bad policies. And it's hard to stand on business when you see that kind of stuff happen and be in denial anymore. And the countless other atrocities that have happened since then.

So I think that maybe people just have to have an aha moment. And I'm sure I said insensitive things to people before then and I didn't really understand the consequences of my actions and the privileged place that I lived. But I do think it is possible for people to come back from that. But I don't know if it's gonna necessarily be a conversation versus like a life changing moment for them maybe.

I didn't know that was your story. And I will tell you, in this county on multiple occasions, while at my office, I've seen firsthand Republicans come in, people who were part of the Republican Party in the iteration that I grew up with, which was different than MAGA. They've said, I'm done with this. So for as many people as I've lost, I've also gained new people.

Yeah, yeah,

I think that they, I would hope they come back to the fray and they get on the right side of things, but I think it's difficult to be that person that gets them there. I think there needs to be some introspection and personal work that happens. Yeah,

I think you're right about that.

Well, Michelle, what has been the most important lesson you've learned over the last 15 years you've been involved in Pennsylvania politics?

So this is on a very micro level and it is truly the most important lesson I've learned. It's what's kept me alive because surviving in a political world is not easy.

Mm-hmm.

Many people don't last. You got to keep your circle very tight. And for me, that circle has always, the orbit of that circle is always built around what we just talked about, a moral compass, right? There has to be something on a deeply human level.

that brings people together in the first place. So once you're together, you got to figure out like, are these really my people? And once you know who your people are, and there aren't many like your real people who are your ride or die people.

Mm-hmm.

You have to keep them close. You keep them close. That's how you survive to help the next candidate, the next LGBTQ plus candidate. I just had a candidate in Allegheny County. She she's the first openly lesbian woman to be elected to the court of common pleas It's a very big deal. So that's, that's the number one lesson. And number two, and I think equally as

Wow, that's wonderful.

Mm-hmm.

not just in politics, but in life, like you got to treat everybody with unconditional positive regard. Because A, it's the right thing to do, but B, it's also what keeps the path forward and the doors open. If you treat somebody poorly out of the gate because you disagree with them or you don't like who they're representing or like their position, you're more likely than not going to end up.

Somewhere with them in another cycle maybe trying for the same objective like you just got to be good to people Because keep your circle tight find the people you can trust and only trust them Because it's politics. It's it's back stabby. It's really I think rough for women. I don't want to go there but unconditional positive regard

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. Get a good group of people and run as a bloc move as a bloc and stay focused. Makes sense.

Yeah.

Michelle, what gives you hope?

I mean, this is going to sound like a

She's so passionate about clean energy and finding and I think she's representative of an entire generation of individuals, of human beings who think about the world in such a ⁓ global way. And she's doing what she can to make a difference where she can while also making a living. I see that in so many people her age and younger. So I always think the next generation.

is our hope. think you at 42 years old are the hope of this party. think Malcolm Kenyatta at age 35 are the hope of the party. And I do think the party itself, the platform, the vehicle, the way it is potentially able to move us from one thing to a better thing, that's hopeful to me.

I fundamentally, I probably should be cynical, but I'm not. I always have hope for our better angels. I think that's where we land.

Yeah, we have to have hope for our children. It's our job as parents. We have to have hope for the future, a future that's better for them and everyone that comes after them.

Yeah.

Yeah, what about you? Where do you see hope?

I am hopeful because there are people like you and thousands of others like you who wake up every day to try and make the commonwealth a better place. I just know it. The people that I've interviewed.

do something every day to make this place better for myself, my children, people I don't even know. It's hard to not have hope with all the good things we all do. Yeah, I really do.

Wonderful.

I remember seeing you on TikTok after the election, like being moved myself by your vulnerability and expressing what we were all feeling. It was devastating.

Yeah,

it was devastating, but I was not hopeless. I was not optimistic at how things were going to be with Donald Trump being in office and Republicans taking over a of power, but I did not give up hope. And if you read about history, it's hard not to be hopeful. I made it a personal goal of mine to read the biographies of all the presidents from the beginning. I'm up to Rutherford B. Hayes right now. And I have to say, this country has been through a lot of terrible times.

right?

through it.

lot of terrible times, but there were a lot of really good people who didn't give up and now this is our time. It is our time to not give up and they might they might not ever write about me, but my kids I hope will remember what I've done and that when they get older they just continue the journey. So that's what gives me hope.

That's right.

My last question for you is what are your plans to get yourself through these next couple years?

It's not gonna be hard. I'm gonna keep waking up every day ready to do the work with people who are just like us. We've been through it, but we're together in this. I don't think the next couple of years is any harder. I feel somehow in this 2.0 as the opposition party with what feels like more at stake.

Like I'm ready to fight harder. I somehow have more hope and more energy and more willingness and more readiness and more everything.

Yeah.

We can exist on different points of the democratic ideological spectrum, and we still have the capacity to row in the same direction as evidenced by November 4th. We can do that. So I have faith in us, and I'm excited for what our future holds.

Yeah.

One election at a time, brick by brick, we build and so that it will create a springboard into the next one. And I think that that's what you're going to focus on. And I'm going to be right there with you.

Well, Michelle Milan-McFall Chair of the Westmoreland County Democrats, political operative and just amazing person. I am so grateful to know you. I'm grateful for the journey we've taken together. And I know we're just going to do so much great.

great work together. And if you're listening to this, you're watching this, just know if you live in a red area of this state, there are people like Michelle who are waking up every day to move the needle forward. Do not give in to despair. Keep voting, keep moving forward, look for the helpers, and someday it's gonna get better.

Thank you so much, Zeke. I feel the same way. I'm so honored to be in this work with you. You know, we got this. We got this. Thank you so much.

We do, we got this. Thank you, Michelle.

Well, thank you so much for joining me here on the The Stay hopeful and get involved and until next time, let's keep building a stronger Pennsylvania together.