Hello, I'm Zeke and welcome to The Zekely Podcast. Let's talk, Pennsylvania. The guest I have today lives in Center County, Pennsylvania, and is currently the political and policy director of Conservation Voters of Pennsylvania, the state's leading environmental advocacy organization. She advocates for policies to lower energy costs for working families, fights back against Trump's attacks on the environment, and responds to the growing challenges of data center growth in Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for being here, Katie Blume.

I’m Zeke, a doctor, a Pennsylvanian and unapologetic supporter of Democratic values. You might have seen me on social media working my ass off for Democrats and meeting some pretty amazing people along the way - like President Barack Obama and Governor Josh Shapiro.

For years, I’ve knocked thousands of doors all over Pennsylvania and poured my heart and soul into supporting candidates and causes that make a difference—from local school board races to national elections. The personal is political, and I take every election in Pennsylvania personally.

Where the mainstream media has failed you, I will give you truth and independence. You’ll hear from Democratic leaders, candidates, and change-makers who are working to improve the health of the Commonwealth, and it won’t be boring as hell.

No matter where you are, I’ll meet you with hope and a plan to make your community better one day at a time. Welcome to the Zekely Podcast. Let’s talk Pennsylvania.

Thanks for having me, really appreciate it.

Absolutely, you know, at first when you contacted me, I thought you were trolling me, Katie. Because when you read it really quickly, I was like, Is this the conservative voters of Pennsylvania? I was like, what the hell's going on? Like, we're not gonna be friends. But then I started looking

Nope.

deeper and I was like, the conservation voters of Pennsylvania.

yes, we would like to have more conservative people care about the environment though.

Yes,

that would be very nice. But a quick glance, I was like, what is happening right now? Like, this is not the right

Mm-hmm.

the right venue for you. But this is hilarious. I'm glad we're finally connecting. We're gonna play some games, have some fun, learn all about you. You ready?

Sure.

Katie, I understand your colleagues call you Keystone Katie because of all your random PA knowledge and your dream is to participate in a PA trivia competition with former Senator Bob Casey.

I don't know if you know this, but Senator Casey is kind of renowned, at least in Pennsylvania political circles, for just knowing all of the things about Pennsylvania and random Pennsylvania history. And I would love to do that. However, I know he would completely beat me. he

Yeah.

is so good, but that is, you know, the first what? I think

A dream.

it was Doylestown or somewhere nearby, had the first municipal Christmas tree lighting. All kinds of random facts for ya.

Random

stuff. Well, I'm gonna prep you. Okay, we're we're gonna play

gosh.

some PA trivia and I'm gonna get you ready for this, okay? which Pennsylvania borough is completely surrounded by another municipality?

Okay, there's over two thousand six hundred municipalities in Pennsylvania, buddy. That's gonna be a stumper.

Yeah, I know. I mean I feel like Bob Casey might know this.

I only know this because I live in it. Okay. I live in the surrounding

one. So it's Narberth Narberth PA, yep, is completely surrounded by Lower Marion Township. Yep. Lower Marion Township.

Really? Marion. Marion, yeah. I

is that the only one in the state?

That's the one that I could find. I mean, you know, Google

Okay.

Goo Google could have failed me, but that's the that's definitely what I found. So yeah, I thought that was interesting.

Yeah. I

was like my borough, I've got two municipalities and I was racking my brain trying to go through counties and where I've been. So Yeah, that was a stumper. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Narberth is a municipal island. Okay, here's another one. Which

Pennsylvania governor later became US Secretary of Homeland Security?

that's Tom Ridge. He's

Tom Ridge, very good. Okay.

also very good on the environment, just saying.

I love it. That's very important. Here's another one. Which Pennsylvania town was the site of the nation's first commercial oil well?

I always forget 'cause my parents took me to the museum when I was a little girl in a place called Pithole City.

But I don't think that's a town, but it would be Oil I wanna say it's near Oil City or

It's okay, it's Titus Phil.

Titusville, thank you. Yeah. Forest County. I think that's Forest County. Yeah.

Titusville. It's okay. It's okay. Here's one more. I think you're going to get this one. It might be Forest County. But yeah, Titusville

is the town. All right, last one, you're going to get this. I have a feeling.

Which Pennsylvania native has won the most Olympic gold medals?

Pennsylvania native gold medals.

Yes. Yeah.

boy, you're getting into sports land territory for me.

Yeah, I know, I'm

not very good at it either. But this is just Pennsylvania specific. A Pennsylvanian who won the most Olympic gold medals, not the one who's won all of them.

Do they still live and practice in Pennsylvania?

I don't know. I probably should have looked that up. I don't know.

If they l still

live in practice in Pennsylvania, it is figure skater, what is it, Adam Ripon, I think his name is.

Adam Ripon.

I have Mark Spitz. Yeah,

Really? What sport?

swimming. So he captured gold medals in the 100-meter, 200-meter, freestyle butterfly and three relay events. He held the record for the most gold medals in history in a single Olympics until Michael Phelps unseated him. Yeah, Mike, my Mark Spitz.

you did say or used to have the most. Yeah. Yeah. Sports, neither of us are great on sports. But now I I actually

Yeah, or used to have the most. Yeah. Used to. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not good at sports either.

I wrote the name down because now I'm gonna remember. So Okay.

Yeah. I'm just getting you ready 'cause Bob Casey's coming

and he's you know, he's not gonna give you an easy time, right?

Katie, why are you a Democrat?

So it's interesting. Somebody actually asked me recently why.

it comes down to aside from

I mean, I I also think my grandfather would roll over in his grave if I wasn't.

Okay.

but he was a union guy and you know, my parents were activists in the late sixties and early seventies. But to me right now today, when I try to do a side-by-side kind of comparison of what people are proposing.

I look at other parties as trying to put band-aids on things. And I look at the Democrats as trying to solve the root issues. And I think we know to plan for the future, you've got to solve the root issues.

I mean I think if anything, what Republican politicians have shown over and over again in in Pennsylvania is that they don't want government to work. They don't want it to work. I mean,

Mm-hmm.

you have to believe that people when working together can fix problems. And right now Republican politicians don't want to do that. And so it's very difficult to say that, you know, politics matter to people who are apathetic when they see people literally breaking the way the government should work. So

Yeah, I could totally see that from your vantage point. If you want to make policy move, the Democratic Party is the one to do that, especially for the environment. So I appreciate that. It's one of my favorite questions to ask because I think it's an important one, especially in today's environment, to encourage people to support a party because there are going to be elections and you have to pick a side. You know, we live in a binary government and there's going to be someone who wins. And I believe the Democratic Party is the safest party at this point in time.

Katie, you have said recently that Pennsylvania has an opportunity right now to do with data centers what we didn't do during fracking. What are you doing at Conservation Voters or PA to address data centers in Pennsylvania and prevent history from repeating itself?

What Conservation Voters of PA has decided to do, and the lane that we really want to focus on, is a regulatory and guardrail lane.

When fracking came in, it was so not regulated. There were a few throwaway regulations. You know, we've got people all over the state from fracking. When we look at folks in Dimmock or down in Washington County who still have poisoned water from fracking. we have people who want to use fracking wastewater.

That likely has some radioactive elements in it to put on dirt roads to keep dust down. Like there are things here that we did not do to protect people's health and safety, let alone the environment. And a lot of it came down to regulations. And so what we are thinking about at CVPA because it's such a big issue, we really wanted to focus in on guardrails. that is some of the legislative advocacy that we've done this year. we were able

able to work with the administration because we added a whole pile of amendments to the governor's grid plan to make it even more strong. We're not there yet. We're gonna keep working on it.

and Representative Freel actually has a bill that passed the House, I think almost unanimously. I think there was one vote. And it just didn't happen in the budget. It didn't the Senate hasn't passed it,

wonder why, Katie.

a shocker.

because

Shocker.

the Democrats control the state house and Republicans control the state senate. And that's why it hasn't passed.

Yeah.

And and as an environmentalist, that is sad for me, actually. because for God's sake, Richard Nixon helped create the EPA.

Governor Tom Ridge really promoted growing greener, right? The environment

Yeah, yeah.

never used to be partisan. and it really stinks that it is now.

Well, I mean, look, when you gerrymander the shit out of this country and you make everything hyperpartisan to get elected and you get further and further to the fringes and you got a MAGA party, this is happens, right? Facts become optional. You have alternative facts. but in Pennsylvania at least, if we get the trifecta this November third,

Yes.

we can get all these amazing things done in Pennsylvania. And part of that is protecting our environmental rights. So I appreciate what you're doing.

conservation voters or PA, but again, you need the right people in power to get these things done. In order to do that,

We do.

we need more Democrats to get elected.

Hey, thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Zekely Podcast. And if you're enjoying yourself, please take a moment to rate my Podcast. Five stars would be great and leave a comment as well. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please hit follow. OK, back to the show.

I was on the Conservation Voters of PA website, and I took a look at the candidates endorsed by CVPA, and I noticed a lot of Democratic candidates. are Republican politicians at all open to working with your organization?

I have found that when we can drill down into very, very, very tangible things that people can see or they can see their neighbor directly affected by, we have a lot more success working with Republicans in either chamber.

Okay.

I I guess, you know, overarchingly, big picture. You know, while there may be some Democrats even who are not as, you know, in tune with working with conservation voters or PA, and while there might be a couple Republicans who would work

Mm-hmm.

with you, you're gonna get more done with Democrats, right? You are you are

By far endorsing Democratic candidates on your website because you know that to get your policies done in terms of just strategy, you you're not gonna waste your time trying to go after Republican politicians because you have such a deep bench in the Democratic Party to choose from. So it would make sense that when you have to make a choice, you choose a Democratic Party. Look, it'd be nice if a couple of Republicans came over. For sure. You're not gonna turn them away,

Yeah.

but in terms of your resources, your time, your money.

It makes more sense to go after democratic politicians. And that is that's that's life living in America right now, right? I mean, your vote is your power. And when you go to the polls and you have to make a choice in the binary system we live in, you are going to get more from a democratic politician today, whether it's healthcare, housing, environmental services, just life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, your your democracy protecting your right to vote, it's the Democratic Party.

So I always like to showcase that because like, both sides are the same. They're not, they're not, they're not at all, even close to being the same. not in this scenario, not in any scenario. So I just want to highlight

Yeah.

that because it is important that people get endorsements from organizations. And so when I looked

yeah.

at that, when I looked at your website, it's Democrat after Democrat after Democrat, no Republicans that I could find. And that is just a state of play. It's reality, and we have to live in reality. So I appreciate that you do endorse these candidates, showcase what Democrats can do for Pennsylvania, but

We as Pennsylvanians have a job to do on November third. We have to get those people elected so that you can do your job and give them the good policy to pass and protect the environment in Pennsylvania.

And I think, you know, when our scorecard comes out, take a look. Take a look at this year's votes. take a look at lifetime scores. you will see very consistently for at least a decade where people have landed on the environment. I truly wish it were different. I would love a

Stand out candidate to come, but people are just playing such party politics right now around really critical policies.

August nineteenth, go to your website, Conservation Voters PA,

Mm-hmm.

and that scorecard will be there.

Katie, how would you explain to someone that climate change and the economy are interrelated issues?

I may fight with one of my siblings about this all the time. but

Climate change makes everything cost more.

people are finally making that connection between their utility bills and clean energy, right? And people are, you know.

my gosh, my water quality. What happens to my water quality when a data center moves in? But my God, my electric bill in the data center, you know, and I think there are much more tangible things happening. It's not just one community in one corner of Pennsylvania that has a pollution event.

It's so it's utility bills, it's infrastructure, but it's also jobs. I am so I remain am I allowed to swear on this podcast? I've been I've

A hundred a hundred percent.

I've been so good so far. I call what happened last June the big bullshit bill. yes.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I call it. That's what I call it too, the big bullshit bill, yeah.

the SNAP and healthcare, that all aside, getting rid of the IRA. You know, people are like, well, renewable energy companies, why do they need to be subsidized to succeed if it's so good? Y'all, we've been subsidizing fossil fuel countries for well over a hundred years. That has

Yeah, yeah.

not gone away, that has not stopped.

businesses succeed not just in Pennsylvania but in the country by having some sort of deal to help that bottom line and to show their

Yes.

shareholders they can be successful.

the big bullshit bill, you know, I look at folks like

Scott Perry and Bresnahan and Mackenzie, and we don't work, we don't do federal electoral work at all. National League of Conservation Voters does. But we have been showing up in all these districts,

trying to just get some press hits and things like that. Being like, I think we just had a billboard up maybe in the Scranton area. Congressman Bresnahan traded stocks on AI.

He's terrible. I I'm really hoping Paige Cognetti unseats him. My God, he is one of the worst inside traders that Congress has ever seen. I agree with you. I mean,

Anyway

you know, not doing something for the environment costs everyone. It's expensive, jobs, healthcare, everything.

there's lots of connections to climate change and the economy. And that's like another three hour. We're gonna have we're gonna have some bourbon over that one.

that sounds good. Well, I think the bottom line, you laid it out very nicely, is that if you ignore climate change, it's gonna cost you. It's gonna cost you. And so we cannot ignore it any longer, not one more day.

Katie,

I understand you play the handbells, for

I do.

for thirty three years almost continually and for multiple churches. So how did you pick up this activity? I have to know.

It was so weird. I was 12 years old. I just dated myself. I was 12 years old.

and like I was in like the the after school program at the church that I grew up in, and like they teach you different like there's a little choir and they're like, We're gonna teach you the handbells. And I'm like, Okay. For some random reason, I fell in love with it. I also play the piano.

But it was it just it is not one instrument. And I think that's why I love it, is that it's a it's almost like a team instrument in a way. Right? Yeah.

Okay. I I believe you. I mean I I find

this very intriguing. you've been doing this for

Mm-hmm.

so long. Now are you an advanced bell ringer? Like do you use a four-in hand or plucking the clapper? You do any that stuff?

it depends on what position you play. The bells that I play right now are about like this big, right? So like Yeah. Yeah.

That's okay, for those who can't see this, it's like bigger than bigger than my head. That's a very big bell. Okay.

so if you everyone kind of knows that classic Carol of the Bells song,

Yeah.

where it goes bong

bong. That's the bell that I play. It's really big.

but I have played all across multiple octaves and four in hand. I have played those. Those are the bells that are above the treble clef. right now I play the bells that are below the tre I've played the entire spectrum. I've been so busy the last few years though that

I have been playing with my home choir, but my skills are not up to par where they used to be.

Well, I hope you get back into it. I I look, I went down a rabbit hole, okay, with the bells, with the handbells, okay?

yeah.

I didn't realize I wound up at the handbells musicians of America website. And boy boy, you know, they you know, you should be way more braggadocious about handbelling. is that even a word? Handbelling? Is that a thing? Am I saying that? Handbelling.

honestly I call myself a ding a ling.

Well, I I think it's a it's a whole community. And there are competitions and there's,

It is.

you know, shows all the time all over the country. There are nominees for like the handbell award

Mm-hmm.

of like the lifetime achievement award. It's crazy. so pretty awesome that you do that.

but we're gonna play a game called I Need More Handbell, okay? instead of the cowbell, we're gonna do a handbell. So I'm going

All right.

to tell you a couple things. And if you think Pennsylvania

Okay.

needs more of this, I want you to say.

I need more handbell. Okay.

Okay. Okay.

Keep strong protections against toxic chemicals in our drinking water.

Need more handbells.

Need more handbells. Isn't Trump's EPA threatening to remove all those protections? It's crazy.

Yep. Yep.

I don't want more toxins in my drinking water from for myself, my kids, my patients. I'm a doctor. You know, this is crazy. I mean,

you can't have to imagine there has to be some part of you that doesn't care about other human beings to take away these protections. But I agree, we need more handbell in that situation. Okay, I have a couple more.

Tough policies that remove toxic mercury and other plutons from the air.

we absolutely need more

cowb or I almost said cowbell, because I'm I love that sketch.

I know, I know. I know.

handbell. I think in Pennsylvania we need more handbell, definitely.

they haven't fully succeeded in destroying everything at the EPA yet. the DEP has been pretty good.

on like toxics in water, but I think we could strengthen our regulations here about mercury and other VOCs through DEP.

Yeah. That

no Republican politicians are coming to you to try and crack down on those policies or anything.

Yeah.

No, Doug Mastriano hasn't reached out to talk about contrail conspiracy theories,

I mean he's off

you know?

he's off to Eastern Europe now, so you know.

It's true. He he's crazy. Absolutely crazy. All right, here's the

last one. Stop issuing new natural gas drilling permits in PA until we can keep families safe.

So many more handbells needed.

this goes back to what I said at the top with data centers and fracking. You know, we've got to regulate these things and keep our communities safe and healthy. We don't need any more cancer clusters in Pennsylvania.

No, we don't. I know the Marcellus Money Project, or the thing Conservation Voters of PA initiated, found that industry political action committees and executives routinely contribute to campaigns of PA candidates and they buy influence and support for their projects. So again, the scorecard that's coming out August nineteenth, you need to look at that because those people are not taking money from those corporate packs. And we need to get more Democrats elected to protect Pennsylvania from all these harmful

Harmful entities. We c we can't have this happen.

Yeah. Yeah.

In PA we gotta keep our water clean, our air clean as much as possible.

Katie, what do you think is the biggest threat to Pennsylvania's environment that not enough people are talking about?

This is a complex subject.

People are kind of talking about it, but the general public really doesn't know. Part of me doesn't expect them to know. This is very in the weeds, but it has such an outsized impact.

our grid operator is PJM. It's our regional transmission operator, 13 states. The vast majority of the energy for it is generated in Pennsylvania.

they want to fast track dirty things.

they recently came out with a report. Well, we're gonna fast track some of this solar and some of this storage, but it is nowhere near close to the kinds of gas projects that they want to fast track. And I just I read things like that and I scream internally, sometimes not, it depends on if anyone else is home.

it can take seven to ten years to get a gas turbine.

We can build a grid scale solar field

with considerations within two years. we have an opportunity to ramp up renewables manufacturing to meet these demands.

but PJM, you know, how they operate, how they function, the projects that they are greenlighting, a lot of people don't know about that.

Yeah,

how can we in Pennsylvania, if you're listening or watching this, how can we reclaim our power What's what's something that we tangibly can do?

tangibly can do is you need folks should well vote in November because the one thing the Senate also does is appoint public utility commission commissioners. Right? Yeah,

Oversight. Oversight.

it's complete oversight. And voting in November could change that. If we had a pro-environment Senate,

We would have the most amazing PUC commissioners. We would have there's all kinds of advisory boards and commissions that impact all kinds of things related to the environment that the Senate has to approve.

We got a couple little things through

last year about some PJM transparency stuff. but that's not enough. That is not enough. And when we have FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, it's kind of the oversight for all of the grid operators in the country. That is federally run. We know who's running it.

we need state oversight for these grid operators.

it just really highlights how important, you know, getting the trifecta is going to be this November third. You know, it really just highlights that it all comes down to who's in control, who's in power, in Harrisburg. And then once we get that control, we can have oversight and make sure that the types of concerns that you have are going to be addressed.

Mm-hmm.

And until we have that control.

This is gonna be looming. It's gonna be hanging over our heads. So I can't say this enough. I mean, over and over and over again, we have to make sure that this November third we get out the vote and we get more Democrats acted. We get the trifactor for the first time in over thirty years, and then we start pushing good environmental policy in Pennsylvania.

Wow, you're still listening. Thank you so much. I want to make sure as many people in Pennsylvania as possible get to experience The Zekely Podcast. So to help spread the word, please take a moment to rate my podcast. Five stars would be great. Leave a comment as well. And if you're watching this on YouTube, please hit follow. Enjoy the rest of the show.

Katie, what has been your proudest accomplishment at Conservation Voters of PA?

My proudest accomplishment has been there's two. I'm gonna go with two. One is

really working to build real relationships, working relationships with folks in our trade unions, and talking with the AFL and the PA building trades.

Because legislators used to intentionally make us fight with each other, right? and now we all, you know, we don't always agree, but now we get along. and it's helpful. And I think the second one is all of the work that myself, my team at conservation voters, and other folks in the Clean Power Coalition, all of the work that we did to get so many bills to protect our environment, put guardrails around data centers, address utility.

costs, all of the bills that the House passed this spring.

Mm-hmm.

When I did a count after the budget was passed between passing through committee and passing through the chamber, it was over 30 bills. And I am so glad we were able to get that done.

That's amazing. But I mean, it must be very painful to watch those bills languish in the state senate, right? You get these amazing bills passed and then they don't go anywhere because god damn it, we don't have control in the state senate. Okay, so we need the trifecta people. I'm so proud and happy to have someone like Katie Blume in Pennsylvania working to push good initiatives forward for our environment, but we can't let them stall over and over again, right? This is our time to get these initiatives.

on Governor Josh Shapiro's desk. Let's get it done this november

Yeah.

third.

Katie, what would you say to someone who is disaffected with democracy?

Honestly, some days so am I. I think we all feel that way. but if we do not participate, it only gets worse because people who do not want democracy are counting on us feeling that way. You know, and be staying

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

involved no matter how hard it might be from day to day. that's what we need to do, and that's the best way to combat this because.

I have no problem saying there's a lot of fascists in DC right now.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

and they want us to be tired and I refuse to be tired and I refuse to disengage 'cause that's what they want and we know that life will get worse.

100%. We have our own homegrown fascists in Pennsylvania, right? We have election deniers still serving in our state senate. It is insane. Insane. But we can change all that by waking up every day and doing one thing. One thing in our communities to move the democratic process forward. And I'm glad that you're a part of that process, Katie.

Katie, what gives you hope?

actually it kind of ties into the last question. what gives me hope is people still working. it is you know the the Mr. Rogers saying of, you know, look for the helpers.

and seeing all of these people doing the work, you know, we have a webinar that's just informational. And we can have hundreds of people join because they're like, I just want to learn so I can do more. and seeing people get engaged, we had an overwhelming attendance at our lobby day in May. And like, I think

that's great.

25 people who heard about it and just showed up and were like, my God, we've got to assign you to a group.

You know, and seeing people still wanting to engage that way, is actually what gives me hope. And seeing our members still caring about this, I'm gonna keep going through that. And seeing legislators like Rep Fiedler, Rep Friel, Rep Otten, Rep Vitale, Rep Webster, all of these folks.

still driving this in Harrisburg, even if it's an uphill battle. and that gives me hope too.

Yeah, I mean, hope is a verb, right? It's something that we do

Mm-hmm.

every day. We have to be engaged in the democratic process. And that previous question, you answer that very nicely. But yeah, I mean, people like you give me hope. You know, you wake up every day trying to make Pennsylvania a better, cleaner, safer place to live in. It's hard not to have hope when you know other people are doing the work with you.

Absolutely.

Katie,

my last

question for you is: what are your plans to get you through these next few years in America?

I started adding America at the end of that question because I feel like it adds a bit more weight to the question.

when Trump was re-elected and people were very down, I looked at them and said, My grandfather did not bomb the shit out of some Nazis for me to sit on my ass.

I

like that.

that's what I'm doing. And I'm gonna keep what keeps me going is doing the work. Yeah.

Doing the work. That's right. I

feel like that is a common thread with people I bring on the show. It's certainly what I do. I lean into the work.

Okay. Mm-hmm.

I don't run away, you know, I don't doom scroll or curl up in a ball. You know, action, action, action. We have to be moving the ball. We don't really know sometimes what to do, but we look for the helpers.

And we do something every day. And I think that's gonna get us through these next couple of years. Absolutely. The arc of history shows that the people who changed it did not sit on the sidelines. They did not. They were in the game. They were doing something every day. So thank you for thank you for doing the work with me, Katie. I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Absolutely. And

Well

thanks for having me here.

Katie

absolutely, yeah, Katie Blume, conservation voters are PA, the political arm. You are just moving policy as quickly as you can through the legislature. And as we've seen and we've talked about, it is stalling, and it's stalling only because Republicans have control in the only split legislature in the nation. We are the only ones, and that can change this November 3rd. Please pay attention, as Katie said, August 19th on your website. What's your website? Tell your website to everyone.

conservation, not conservative, conservation,

Ha ha.

PA dot org.

ConservationPA.org, go there August 19th, and they're gonna have a scorecard that's gonna show all the people that we should be focusing on in Pennsylvania to get the trifecta and get a cleaner, safer place to live in Pennsylvania. Katie, I appreciate you so much. I'm glad we connected and I can't wait to see what you get done when we get the trifecta finally this year.

Yeah. And thanks for having me. Really enjoyed it.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me here on the Zekly Podcast. Stay hopeful and get involved. And until next time, let's keep building a stronger Pennsylvania together.