Hello, I'm Zeke and welcome to the Zekely podcast. Let's talk Pennsylvania. The guest I have today is a lifelong Southeast Pennsylvania resident with deep ties to the judicial system. For the past decade, she's been serving as a judge in the Superior Court and is now standing for retention to continue protecting the rights of all Pennsylvanians. Thank you so much for being here, Judge Alice Beck Dubow

For years, I’ve knocked thousands of doors all over Pennsylvania and poured my heart and soul into supporting candidates and causes that make a difference—from local school board races to national elections. The personal is political, and I take every election in Pennsylvania personally.

Where the mainstream media has failed you, I will give you truth and independence. You’ll hear from Democratic leaders, candidates, and change-makers who are working to improve the health of the Commonwealth, and it won’t be boring as hell.

No matter where you are, I’ll meet you with hope and a plan to make your community better one day at a time. Welcome to the Zekely Podcast. Let’s talk Pennsylvania.

Absolutely, you I'm collecting judges.

Okay, thanks for having me.

Okay, so you are the fourth judge who's running for statewide election this November 4th, and the second judge who was standing for retention in Pennsylvania.

We should get like baseball cards or something with, we'll see how much they're worth, probably.

I know. I know.

mean, honestly, if you if you watch, listen to my show, I'm terrible at sports. I know nothing about sports at all. Doesn't matter what sport it is. But when it comes to politics, that's where I geek out. So thank you so much for being here. We're to talk all about you, your campaign and have some fun. You ready?

Good, let's go.

Well, you have been serving honorably as a judge in the Superior Court for the last decade. Why have you decided to stand for attention for another 10 years?

And just to kind of orient

the listeners or viewers, know, the structure of the court system in Pennsylvania. So you have the Supreme Court at the top like a pyramid. And then right underneath, that's where you are, the superior court. And right next to you is the commonwealth court. Below that is the Court of Common Pleas. At the very bottom, have your magisterial courts. So

So on Superior Court, we deal with a lot of different legal issues, lots of different topics, from child custody to wills to criminal cases. And some of the legal issues are somewhat complex. And it's one of these jobs where the more you know, the better you can be and the more creative you can be. And so I've learned a lot in the past 10 years. I'd like to continue to do that.

And just to build, not only to build on my knowledge, but I also care a lot about my cases and my decisions. And I really would like to continue to have that opportunity to make a difference. So yes, it's great. It's Very satis- It's very satis- It's hard. are times it's really hard. Sometimes it's tedious, but at the end of the day, it's really satisfying. Yeah.

So you really love the job.

That's the kind of person I want serving.

Every job is hard, you know,

it's

we need people who love their jobs, especially at the judicial level to do it well. So I'm glad that you're standing for retention.

Yes. Yeah, well thank you.

Well, let's play a game called Alice in Judicial Land. Okay. In Judicial Land. Yes, in Judicial Land. So I'm going to give you some cases and you're going to give me your ruling. Okay. So the Mad Hatter.

Okay.

and judicial. A judicial end, OK. OK.

Okay.

is accused of hosting an unlicensed tea party in the Queen's Garden and the Queen of Hearts demands a ruling. Would you issue a permit for the Mad Hatter's Soiree or is tea party diplomacy dead on the arrival

No, I think I'd issue the permit. You know, we're kind of in a divisive world right now. I think the more people can get together, the better it would be. I'm issuing the permit.

You would?

Mm-hmm.

Good. That's

fine. You're not going to kick it over to the Commonwealth Court and let Judge Wojcik, because it's kind of a zoning issue. You think he can handle that?

nobody's zoning issue. But let me

say this, we the rules do let superior court hear some Commonwealth Court matters when we choose to. So I think it's Alice in Wonderland, like, it can come to me.

Okay, alright.

Yeah, it's

a come to you. Okay, fair enough, fair enough. All right, the Cheshire Cat is sued for causing confusion and chaos by disappearing and reappearing at will, leaving only his grin behind. Is there a precedent for magical mischief?

I bet you weren't expecting this on the Zekely podcast. These are the, we get to the root of the true issues here. I know.

We hope. You do. really...

Yeah, Yeah, I do think there's a precedent out there.

precedent for him?

that it's okay that he just leaves his smile behind and he after he disappears.

I think we need more smiles around anyway, so I agree with you. All right, here's the last case. The Queen of Hearts is accused of using live flamingos as croquet mallets, raising concerns about animal rights. Should the Queen be held liable for animal cruelty or does her

Yeah. Good point. Yeah, good.

her immunity from prosecution?

no, not. She has no immunity for her. No, no, not in not the American system doesn't matter how much power you have. Okay.

No immunity.

All right, well,

from your lips to the White House's ears.

Exactly.

Well, the Superior Court is the most common court for the average person to interact with in Pennsylvania. So what types of cases do you hear on the Superior Court?

So we hear, first of all, we cases throughout all of

generally most cases start at the trial court level and then whoever loses appeals up to superior court. So trial court level, that's where you have juries, that's where you have live witnesses. When it's appealed up to superior court, we're,

view us sort of as the movie critic. You know, I kind of view the trial court judge is kind of like the director and the producer of the movie.

Whoever loses appeals it up to superior court and we kind of look back and go.

Yeah, that evidence is reliable. Or, my god, I can't believe the trial court let that highly prejudicial evidence in. That party deserves a new trial. So that's kind of sort of broadly what we do.

Okay.

look, I take it seriously, but there is a certain movie critic element.

There's a movie

out to it. And what are some specific cases that you might see? Just a couple of genres.

Yes. So I would say about 65 % of the cases we hear are criminal cases from criminal convictions.

Mm-hmm.

We also hear child custody cases. So once again, the trial court hears the evidence. The trial court decides what parents' rights the parents should have. And then it comes up to

We hear a lot of civil cases, know, plaintiff is catastrophically injured, goes to trial, jury verdict, maybe defense verdict, maybe a huge nuclear verdict.

We'll look over that, make sure the trial court didn't make any legal mistakes.

always view what superior court, what we do is we're a court that deals with individuals' lives. Like Commonwealth Court and Supreme Court, some of what they do impacts everybody in Pennsylvania.

For us,

Yeah, yeah.

the lives that we impact are huge and defining. So like we reverse a criminal conviction. Well, that's going to impact hugely the defendant. It's going to impact hugely the victim, probably the neighborhood that defendant lived in. It's going so...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

We don't get a whole lot of publicity, which is fine, because we're dealing with real, we're dealing much more with individuals and defining events in individuals' lives.

got it.

I mean as a critic of the court system I feel like you should get more you know spotlight.

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's fine. Like the work is satisfying. It makes me feel like I can help individuals.

It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, it's kind

of like I'm an anesthesiologist and I know that, you know, going into the field I went into, the surgeon was always going to get the spotlight. I was fine. I was fine with that. I know that my role is important. I know that they can't do surgery without me. I'm fine with that. don't, I don't, I don't need a gift basket during the holidays, you know, like the surgeon's going to get. I know that what I do is important, so I completely understand.

Bye!

That's right. Absolutely. I love that. that's kind of how I feel.

right.

Well, you serve as a trustee for the Opera Company of Philadelphia, correct?

I did years ago. Not anymore. No, I've been off that board for a while.

You did. Not anymore.

Well, I find it interesting because it is very reminiscent to me of the late RBG. And, know, she also loved opera. And so, you know, I bet it would have been amazing to go to an opera with RBG, I'm sure. Now you and her share that together?

Thank you.

Yes.

You know what also I loved about her? She and Scalia went to the operas together. No, but we're in such a divisive, week. And actually the one thing I really like about my court is we'll disagree on issues, but then we'll have dinner together. And I just, I...

I still don't understand that relationship to the day I die. I will never understand it.

Mm-hmm.

You get much more done. You can disagree, but you don't have to completely hate the other person with whom you're disagreeing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, look,

I would would support you going out to the opera with any of your colleagues so long as it it furthers the rights of Pennsylvanians. OK, if when it when it comes to getting the job done, you know, we all work with people we don't like. Right. I mean, you don't have to like everyone that you work with, but you have to be able to respect them and get the job done. And so if going out to the opera with some of your conservative colleagues helps protect the rights of myself and Pennsylvanians, then thumbs up to that. OK, but we.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

Right, right.

Yeah, okay. And I think

it does help because I often will have a conversation with my colleagues if we're disagreeing. And I'm like, how much do you really care about this issue? like, I don't really care. I'm like, will you just go along with me on this? I mean, it's not a big deal. But I just think it does help uncertainty. And sometimes they'll like, no, I care too much. I'm like, I care too much. We're going, you know.

Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah, but you gotta know what hills to die on, Exactly. Exactly.

Right, that's a phrase from my court too.

Well, we're gonna play a game called the opera game, okay? I'm gonna see how well that your time spent on that committee is gonna get you these answers, all right? So which opera by Giuseppe Verdi, and I'm probably pronouncing the name Verdi or Verdi, is based on a play by Victor Hugo and was initially censored due to its political content.

Okay.

Okay.

God,

I would not get any of these right. So I'm hoping that maybe you know more opera than I do. Oh my gosh, you got it right. You did, you got it. It's Rigoletto.

Okay.

Wiggle little. my God, wow. OK.

All right, which opera by Ludwig van Beethoven is centered around themes of freedom and justice reflecting the political climate of the Napoleonic period?

This I'm drawing, I know he Beethoven wrote some operas and I'm just blanking on what they are.

I'll let you suffer for a little bit on this one. Because you really pulled that first one out. Well, you know, the opera.

Okay, okay.

I know, I don't know where that came from.

No, I'm blanking.

⁓ okay, now I wouldn't have gotten that. Yeah.

An opera based on Nixon's trip to... I've no idea.

Well, yeah, well, you got, I'm

gonna give it to you, because it's called Nixon in China. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Nixon in China. So there you go. Maybe it'll come to a theater near you and you'll remember me. You got it right.

⁓ didn't know that even existed. Okay.

Thank

the Superior Court, you served eight years on the Court of Common Pleas in Philadelphia County. What made you choose the Court of Common Pleas as your first entrance into the judicial system?

was always interested in trials and up to that point, I sort of practiced law and I sort of just wanted another

I've lived in Philadelphia my whole, well, I grew up in Montgomery County and I've lived in Philly ever

I was committed to the city and this was like you're dealing with also part of the city and individuals in the city that I never would have had an opportunity to deal with. You know, sadly, the courts deal with with with people who have struggled with poverty, have untreated mental health issues, have suffered some type of catastrophic catastrophic loss.

Mm-hmm.

But in a way, really, it was an environment that I wanted to go to because I felt like, well, maybe I can help, you know, I could help them and it could be satisfying.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know if anyone's ever told you this, but you have a very relaxing persona. you're very humble. It's like, yeah, I just thought I'd go to the Court of Common Pleas, you know, and I just help people because they needed help. I mean, it's very, it's just very calming. know, it's like other people would be like, well, people needed help. And I wanted to run and I was going to go to the Court of Common Pleas. I was going to do something for the people in Philadelphia. It's just, I feel like in the courtroom, you must have a very calming demeanor. You know, even when you're

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yes.

hashing out difficult cases. Has anyone ever told you that before? I can't be the first

I don't know if anyone has, but on the other hand, I can be very sort of calm and nice until you cross me, like, you know. Yeah. Or even within my courtroom, I had to be, you know, being a judge, lot like being a parent. It's a lot of transferable skills. Like, okay, I'm going to let you do what you want to until you cross the line and then we're done.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sure your kids would tell a different story, right? Yeah.

⁓ huh. Mm-hmm. Got it.

Yeah,

I feel like you're the kind of person that when you need to lay down the law, literally, not figuratively, people know not to cross you.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, as I said, you are running for retention, actually standing for retention. I was schooled by Judge Wojcik. You are standing for retention because it's uncontested. But Brandon Neuman is also running for the first time to join you. Are you excited for his candidacy?

Right.

so much. For anyone watching this, please vote for Brandon. I want him to be my colleague. Vote for Stella. know Stella well. She's wonderful. And also vote yes for all them.

Yep. All endorsed by the Democratic committees

in their areas of democratic platform.

really good. It's a really good slate. It's just a group of individuals who care and are smart and work really hard. And yeah, it's, it's really nice to be part of the slate.

Mm-hmm.

That's great. I'm excited for him to join you.

Well, can you share a moment from your time on the bench that was particularly impactful for you personally?

I was a relatively new appellate judge. And we had this appeal came in and the basic facts of the case were the defendant was 18 or 19 years old. He had a girlfriend who was 17.

And they were involved in a romantic relationship. And I guess they were sexting with each other. they also, they were having sex with each other and they broke up. It was very amicable when they broke up.

Mm-hmm.

The police at some point think that the defendant, he was like 18 or 19 years old at the time,

was stealing from his grandmother. So they get a search warrant for his phone. And when they get his phone, they see these photographs on his phone of his girlfriend in sexually compromising positions. She was 17. He was 18 or 19. Both had agreed, you know, this wasn't coercive. It's what they had agreed to do. And then they broke up and he forgot they were on the phone.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So the DA decides though, they're going to charge this defendant with possession of child

It goes to a trial. he has no choice. The jury convicts him. The trial court gives him a relatively light sentence, but also given, also there's a statute that if you're convicted of various crimes, such as possession of child pornography, you have to report as a sex offender.

Right,

yeah, changes his whole life.

for the rest of your life.

So that's like really significant. He takes an appeal up to my court and we sit in panels of three. So one of the other judges writes the opinion and writes, there's no legal error here. We have to affirm the

And then the third judge who has since died was one of the smartest people I know, Judge Strausberger. He went to Harvard Law School and he writes his dissent in Latin. So he made what it was in Latin like a little pretentious. anyway, so I do Google Translate. And what it translates to is the court should not enforce the law.

in Latin.

Aladdin? I say so.

huh.

when application law makes no sense. When I read that, I was like, yeah, this is so right. Like this should not be convicted.

⁓

Mm-hmm.

And then Judge Shasberger wrote a much longer

I joined it and we reversed the conviction. So that is probably one of my most memorable cases. I've never used that concept again. You don't want to nullify a jury verdict. was just a situation that was so unfair to this kid.

Right, right.

Mm-hmm. Wow. And

that really changed the trajectory of his life. I mean, that's crazy. Wow.

of his life. Yeah.

early on again was that in your career?

That

Wow.

Mm-hmm and that comes across your desk

huh.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I could pull it out.

But also not just that, but now that future judges are going to have that precedent now, and they're going to have that case to pull from. So you didn't just influence his life, you probably have influenced many lives.

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

do you have a specific type of robe you wear based on your mood or season?

I would love to hear it.

⁓ that's

so nice.

I still

wear her robes. It's got her monogram in it. It's, ⁓

wow, was she more of a deluxe robe wearer or a classical robe?

Yeah, okay, good question. So I do believe, so you know, she was one of the first women, she was sort of the first, first college-aged, yeah. Yeah. At that time, the companies that made the robes really only made them for men. So my mom's robe, really kind of large, not particularly well-fitting because that's all she could buy.

You

She was the first woman on Superior Court in the history of Pennsylvania. That is a big deal.

Hmm, I mean...

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I have noticed for my female colleagues as time gone on, they've slightly more fashionable robes than I do.

Okay.

But do you put any flare on when you descent or anything like that?

Well, I

I've thought about that, but no, doesn't express my mood.

No.

No,

I think having your mom's robes, that's enough. That's more than enough. Absolutely.

Yeah, that's kind of nice. I'm going put her monogram right on my back.

some people say that interpreting the law shouldn't be a partisan issue, but history has shown us time and time again that political ideologies do in fact influence decisions in the judicial system. So you are being endorsed by the Democratic Party. How does being a Democrat influence your interpretations of the law?

I think if you look at my court as a whole, the Republicans and the Democrats, we're all pretty moderate. The one principle we all have to follow and we all do follow is we have to follow the existing law. Like it or not, we got to follow the law. As a Democrat, when I have the opportunity,

Mm-hmm.

I am probably a little have the discretion, a little bit more favorable to defendants. So if I'm looking at whether or not counsel was ineffective during that trial, if it's a close call, I'm probably going to say yes.

Mm-hmm.

a plaintiff is catastrophically injured and I have some discretion, I'm probably going to rule in favor of the plaintiff, but not always. And so

You know, they're just democratic values that I sort of, have grown up

may come from a professional family, but which makes me even more sensitive to the needs of workers. I just think I have just been instilled with more liberal

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I definitely think that those values are, they're inseparable from your interpretations of the Constitution. Like, it's part of, it's part of the fabric of who you are. Now, of course, you know, your decisions can change over time, you know, your experiences, what you have in life, but there are core values that the different parties share. And I'm grateful that you are endorsed by the Democratic Party because I know that

Yeah, come on.

Mm-hmm.

you will bring those values to the bench and protect the rights of all Pennsylvanians. And that to me is extremely important.

Yeah.

Yeah, well good, thank you. Yeah, and let me rephrase it. Probably, I think all judges will protect people's rights. It's a question, what are those rights that need to be protected? We have a more expansive use of what people's rights should be than maybe somebody who's more conservative than I

Exactly, right.

right.

We need to be more inclusive and equitable when it comes to the law.

Yeah.

Right, right.

Well, your time has come, Alice. Like a few before you, you were about to play, am I lying? OK, so you as a judge are supposed to be a human lie detector, OK? And I'm going to tell you some things about me that might be true or might be lying. OK, and so far, none of the other previous candidates have gotten everything right.

Okay.

Thank you.

and go.

Okay, so you may be the first one to clock me on all of them, okay? Yeah, all so here, there are five. All here's the first one. I do a cold water plunge every morning to start my day. Am I lying or is that true? That is false. know. He got four right. So you can tie with Wojcik if you get the rest right, but no.

Okay, I got the pressure on me now. Okay.

I think true. Well, you get right.

Okay, all right. At least I could cry woe check.

I mean see them on social media all the time with the cold water plunges. like I have zero desire and I like being cold but not that cold. I'm not interested in that.

I know,

I kind of thought you were an adventurous, physically adventurous.

Now,

my biggest adventure is living in America right now. That's my adventure right now. All right, here, let's get these next four correct, okay? All right, I find sitting in traffic soothing. that, am I lying or is that true?

Yeah, that is, that is.

lying.

I do not find sitting in traffic soothing. Yeah, yeah, you are

Okay, good. Okay, I've got that one right.

I used to drive three hours a day when I was in training for medical school,

It was just absolutely terrible. I could not stand sitting in traffic. I actually got so bored.

⁓ Sitting in traffic, I called into the radio so many times I got in twice That's that's how bored I got. I know Yeah, yeah, I do not enjoy sitting in traffic. So good job that for that is correct. All right. Here's next one I once had a pet python. Is that true am I lying?

Wow, okay. ⁓

False, not true, lying.

That's true. That's true.

Yeah, I did. Actually, it wasn't mine. It was my dad's. My dad got my mom a python for a wedding gift. Yeah, it's a long story. But yeah, his name was Monte the python. And he grew to be 13 feet long. yeah, he used take us for rides in the pool. We had a pool growing up. Yeah, we had a python.

Really?

He would take you for rides?

Yeah,

we used to grab onto his tail and he would like, you know, go in the water and swim and he would like, yeah. Yeah, Burmese pythons are friendly creatures. They're not at risk. No, no, no, no. Yeah, so you used to have a pet python. Yeah. All right. Let's get these next two right. OK, come on, Alice. You can do it. All right. True or false? I enjoy sunbathing.

Really?

They're not poisonous at all? Why? I learned something new. All right.

False

You are correct. I am not a sun. I cannot. I burn. I do not tan as opposed to my wife, Jess. She just like turns five shades darker. She loves soaking in the rays, but no, I do not enjoy sunbathing at all. I just sweat.

Yeah, I think also

being a doctor, you kind of understand the harm that you can do to your skin.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, even if I'm like slathered in sunblock and I've got the sun guarding on, I need to like be moving or doing something. I cannot just lay out in the sun like a starfish. Not my thing. All right. Here's the last one. Let's get let's finish strong. Country music is my least favorite genre. Is that ⁓ that? No, that is true. I cannot stand country music. I cannot stand country music. It is definitely my least favorite genre.

Yeah.

Okay.

Not true. He loved country music.

Really? Well, okay.

I kind of, so when you're in surgery and you're giving anesthesia, is this a surgeon who decides the type of music that you play?

I would say 99 % of the time the surgeon chooses the music. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that most surgeons do not like country music. So it's quite a pleasant experience most of the time. ⁓ But yeah, we don't have control. We bring the drugs to the party and they bring the music. I like to say. Yeah. Yeah. We have fun.

Okay.

Okay, all right.

Yeah, right. I would think you're more popular.

you sit on the board of trustees for the Beck Institute for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, correct?

I just retired from there, but yes, what I did for many, many

You just retired.

so my dad, was a psychiatrist at Penn

known as the father of cognitive behavioral therapy. And so he and my sister is a psychologist.

And they started the Beck Institute, which does a lot of research with

in CBT. They also have a clinical practice. They also do a lot of educational programming for

Mm-hmm.

Well, it seems like it's for a good cause because mental health care seems very important to you and your family, which is great. I I talk a lot about the importance of mental health care. I talk about that I have a therapist I've seen for years. I really think it's important that people take their mental health seriously.

Yeah. Yeah.

yeah. the one, know, being especially was a trial court judge. There's not a person who's in that courthouse who doesn't have significant mental health issues and they're generally untreated or the treatment is poor. It's but I do think that there's much more an acceptance of having mental health treatment than there was 10 years ago. So I think that's helpful as well.

Yeah.

Well, I think that someone who believes in mental health care like yourself, certainly in your family, that you bring that to the bench, right? Because you're going to see a lot of people, like you said, that come through the judicial system who have mental health issues. They can't get the access to health care that they need. They make mistakes, poor decisions out of desperation or just not having access to medical therapy. And you're there to understand the situations and not bring the hammer down.

Yeah.

too harshly. know, there has to be an understanding there that we live in an imperfect system and that sometimes the system fails its citizens.

Right.

Right, right, yeah. Even criminal cases, everybody has untreated mental health issues, victims, defendants.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, if you can get access to it, definitely get it.

Yeah, yeah.

How would you motivate someone to become more aware of these important judicial races?

the truth of the matter is most voters will never be in a courtroom. So it's not like other, especially retail races where I'm impacted by who's the mayor of Philadelphia, who my city council person is. So it is really hard

to motivate It's a, a, it's a lot of work. And I think it's just a lot of when we get closer to November, just reaching out and talking to people, but also sending the message about protecting people's rights and expanding people's

Absolutely. Well, I'm trying to do my part to get your messaging out there by having you on the podcast. And if people go to the ZekelyPodcast.com, I have a whole page dedicated to you and all the judges who are going to be statewide this November 4th. So I'm really trying to get the message out for you. you're going to be crisscrossing the state, I'm sure, for your campaign. And I hope that I can run into you one of these days soon.

Yeah.

I've been, yeah. Yeah,

that would be great. No, and I can't tell you how much we appreciate what you're doing. I mean, this is great. This is really, really good.

Absolutely, absolutely. mean,

you are the backstop to our rights. It is the least I can do. You're welcome.

Yeah, yeah, well thank you.

What do you see is the biggest challenge facing the Pennsylvania judiciary today, and how do you believe it can be addressed?

so many of the problems, especially those that I see now, stem from untreated mental health treatment or lousy mental health treatment and trauma.

I do think in the judiciary, if there was a better way of providing mental health treatment, crime would go down, kids wound't be abused. So to me, that's sort of the biggest problem. I think we're going in the right direction, but it's still.

Yeah.

percent.

There's a long way to go.

I appreciate your optimism that we're moving in the right direction. I feel like the current state of this country right now is very anti-therapy, very strong man, patriarchal, know, asking for help ia a weakness kind of thing, certainly coming out of the White House and from certain, you know, from the Republican platform.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think so

maybe I, I can be more hopeful because I see what's going on in Philadelphia or the collar counties around here. You're probably right in more conservative portions of Pennsylvania, there definitely seems to be, as they say, cultural vibe towards sort of a he-man patriarchal

Mm

vibe.

Yeah.

I heard an interesting podcast on this actually,

Mm-hmm.

which was that as more women began to work and more women held positions of power, all of the existing institutions and corporations and employers started to adopt more stereotypical feminine characteristics, like being more inclusive.

or watching what you say so that you don't hurt somebody's feelings. And that one of the reasons Trump has been successful is he is sort of fighting the, I think it was called the feminization of our culture and appealing to people to the, you've got to be a strong man. got to, men are in charge. got to, might is right.

Mm-hmm.

And it's very much a response to this vibe of bringing more stereotypical feminine qualities into our society.

Yeah, I think it's interesting the verbiage that you're using in terms of feminine qualities. think women as a group have lived under a patriarchal structure for hundreds, thousands of years. And when you live that way, you want to be treated nicely.

You want to be included in society, have the same jobs, be paid the same, be talked to in a way that is respectful and inclusive. So while you say more feminine,

or the feminization as Trump might say, I think it's just being a nice person. When you're kept at a certain level for so long and you get to that an equivalent level, you just want to teach other people to never treat other people the way that you were treated negatively. That's not feminization. That's just saying, hey, how about just not be a jerk?

with, yeah.

Right,

right. Yeah, no, that's a good point. And I hadn't really thought about the derivation of the stereotypical female feelings. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

I just think that's what Trump and Republicans latch on to. They try and make feminism a bad word. And what I see it from is that women have been subjugated for a long time through various avenues against their will. And now that they have reached a level of equality in certain areas, they don't want to go back. And when you interact with someone who was treated poorly for so long, they say, hey, I don't want you to treat me like that anymore. That seems like they're being attacked.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

And

they don't want to feel bad about treating other women badly, right? So they push back and say, I don't want you to tell me that. I don't want you to remind me how bad I was. Just let me be who I am. But we need people to push back on that because we must be more inclusive. We must be more empathetic. We must demand that from our other fellow human beings.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

in an unprecedented fashion, Trump and Republicans in Congress are threatening to impeach judges they don't like. Do you feel your role as a judge is even more important in the face of these attacks in the judiciary?

you know, I sort of, I like think my job's really important. It troubles me on the one hand, it troubles me this effort to impeach judges. It troubles me a lot. Does, do I worry that the state legislature will try to impeach

No, I don't worry about it. if I, my independence is my, my feeling that I've got this job, I am going to do what I think is right. I'm not going to let the threat of impeachment change. What I do is a very strong feeling I have. at a personal level,

I don't, I don't know if the threats there are any, but where it would make no difference. It troubles me.

at sort of a societal level that in the federal system that there is even talk that you would try to impeach a judge because of the judge's opinion and really try to impact their independence and their decisions.

So Judge Alice Beck Dubow is unmoved. You will not be bullied, and you will serve without fear or favor. Good. I love it. I love it. Wield it with passion and

I will not be bullied, right.

Absolutely. I've got this velvet fist.

Alice, what gives you hope?

I sort of big picture what really troubles me very much is

people are very much in silos and very divisive

I think the threat is that so many people are in these silos and they don't think critically about what they're being told. And I think there's a fair amount of manipulation of people's emotions to make them and make them believe that gotta be one camp or the other.

I think most people are pretty moderate in their views. They're just not heard as loudly as the people at the extremes. And I sort of hope that the pendulum will swing back and that people with moderate views, people who are willing to compromise, people who will just try to get things done will become much more.

Prevalent and elected officials who have a lot of authority will Will take more moderate views and get stuff done instead of taking more extreme views and appealing to people's emotions and

demonizing the other side

Mm-hmm.

You can't rule from the fringes. You can't.

No,

And at the end of the day, a lot of very intelligent people want nothing to do with politics or government. They're so disgusted with it. And that's not good either. That's even worse. ⁓

Yeah,

apathy is the enemy.

Well, Alice, what plans do you have to get yourself through these next few years?

I just focus on whatever is before me because I have a full-time job and so it's just like, oh, okay. got it. And, you know, I was a lawyer and I raised two kids when I was a lawyer and I'm back in that mood. Just get it, like whatever I have to do, I just get it done and I'm very efficient. Yeah, once my kids like went off to college and it was just the husband of me and the dogs.

⁓ yep.

Yeah.

I believe that.

huh.

Yeah. my gosh.

I was putzing around. wasn't always efficient. I'm back to efficient Alice. Like, whatever it is, I'm

getting it done. it's fine. I actually, there's, especially given my job is somewhat isolating, like I spend most of my time reading briefs and court opinions and cases and writing opinions. And I actually enjoy going out and actually talking to people and meeting people, especially now, because I just don't do it that much.

Going up and down the Pennsylvania turnpike is a little exhausting. That's the problem is all the traveling. So, but go, it's really nice. And I really within the Democratic party, which is where I'm going now, cause they're the ones who actually are paying attention for November. So enthusiastic. It's really, it's really, really nice.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Well, what can people do to support your campaign?

two things. We're trying to tell their friends to get mail-in ballots and then tell their friends to vote yes for retention for all the judges and also to just vote straight Democrat for Stella and Brandon. And it's a really good judiciary.

That's right.

Like it's a high quality, really smart judiciary and people should be proud of it and want to maintain that.

Absolutely. Well, Judge Alice Beck Dubow standing for retention on the Superior Court in Pennsylvania, November 4th. We have to get out the vote. And as you said on my website, the ZekelyPodcast.com I have a page dedicated to all seven of you. So five standing for retention and two new hires for the Superior Court and the Commonwealth Court. And we have to get you all elected. We have to get you all on the bench protecting our rights.

After November 4th, it is super important. like I always say, every election is the most important election.

Well, thank you and thank you for all your efforts. It's really wonderful.

Absolutely.

Keep fighting the good fight, Alice. Thank you so much for everything that you do.

All right, well, thank you.

Well thank you so much for joining me here on the Zekely Podcast. Stay hopeful and get involved and until next time, let's keep building a stronger Pennsylvania together.